Hi friends,
I was reading through the second section of J4P and stumbled across the "Security Plan that Will Never Win an Election" - -
There's just so much in this book to discuss, so it's a little difficult to pinpoint a certain topic...but this one always catches my attention.
Jesus did not teach with the intention of letting people walk all over us, but His preaching did focus on "enemy love" with more of an imagination.
I struggle with this a great deal...when I imagine someone coming to hurt the ones that I love...how do I react? And how do I react as Jesus taught?
What are your thoughts on the 'turn the other cheek' mentality?
Would Jesus' politics really fly in our government today? Or is it more a personal choice? Or...is it only a personal choice?
It goes on to talk about Jesus' war on terror. The "pulling up the weeds with the wheat" can be more harmful than helpful.
How are we doing that today?
It is obvious with our (United States) bombs falling on our innocent brothers and sisters...but what about where you guys are living? How are we to love the weeds with the wheat in each of our society's forms of injustice?
(I found these around page 92 and on...)
Hope you all are well... :)
h&j
10.25.2008
10.22.2008
words escaping me
Hi friends,
Well, Susan, I must admit that I have been right here, trying to think of something intelligible to say. So in an effort to turn Susan's post into a rolling discussion, I think I'm just going to babble incoherently and hope my dear friends understand me. Why do I have friends who are such good writers? I guess that's a discussion for another time...
In reading this section, I am coming from the perspective of someone who has been quite disillusioned with the Bible, God, humanity, and life in general, and yet who remains an idealist who feels like I need to find a way to fix all that is wrong in the world. I think in reading this, I realize that I am essentially the problem that Claiborne is talking about. Human nature is not content to trust, or believe- we are all control freaks. I love how Claiborne tells the story of the Old Testament, because he talks about all these terrible events that God sanctioned that are so freaking hard to stomach, because they remind us of modern genocide. The Tower of Babel seems so counter-world cooperation- to scatter people and create all these language barriers. How much easier would understanding each other be if we could just speak the same language, and we didn't have race dividing us? (Although think of the lost beauty... another subject) But that's the point- WE would be able to achieve global peace and worldwide reconciliation. It would be the most dangerous thing, but as we see with the whole "kings are a bad idea" phenomenon- when we are control, we in general do a shitty job.
What I'm trying to say is that I see this chapter as saying, here is this story of God repeatedly showing mercy and grace and compassion for the people of Israel- this is God rescuing the poor, and the broken. This is God doing things that are counter-human, and that sometimes don't make sense. But when we take control, we screw up, and not just in minor ways. God is trying to teach us to live lives that are set apart, not because it's cool to be a radical social justice hippie Christian, but because the way God does it is over there, rather than here.
That's all. I was hoping like five more people would write before I did so I could sneak in unnoticed, but then I realized that I work 25 hours a week & spend the other half of my week sitting in my pajamas, working out & watching the View. :(
P.S. (Even though he won't save us- Go Obama!!!)
Well, Susan, I must admit that I have been right here, trying to think of something intelligible to say. So in an effort to turn Susan's post into a rolling discussion, I think I'm just going to babble incoherently and hope my dear friends understand me. Why do I have friends who are such good writers? I guess that's a discussion for another time...
In reading this section, I am coming from the perspective of someone who has been quite disillusioned with the Bible, God, humanity, and life in general, and yet who remains an idealist who feels like I need to find a way to fix all that is wrong in the world. I think in reading this, I realize that I am essentially the problem that Claiborne is talking about. Human nature is not content to trust, or believe- we are all control freaks. I love how Claiborne tells the story of the Old Testament, because he talks about all these terrible events that God sanctioned that are so freaking hard to stomach, because they remind us of modern genocide. The Tower of Babel seems so counter-world cooperation- to scatter people and create all these language barriers. How much easier would understanding each other be if we could just speak the same language, and we didn't have race dividing us? (Although think of the lost beauty... another subject) But that's the point- WE would be able to achieve global peace and worldwide reconciliation. It would be the most dangerous thing, but as we see with the whole "kings are a bad idea" phenomenon- when we are control, we in general do a shitty job.
What I'm trying to say is that I see this chapter as saying, here is this story of God repeatedly showing mercy and grace and compassion for the people of Israel- this is God rescuing the poor, and the broken. This is God doing things that are counter-human, and that sometimes don't make sense. But when we take control, we screw up, and not just in minor ways. God is trying to teach us to live lives that are set apart, not because it's cool to be a radical social justice hippie Christian, but because the way God does it is over there, rather than here.
That's all. I was hoping like five more people would write before I did so I could sneak in unnoticed, but then I realized that I work 25 hours a week & spend the other half of my week sitting in my pajamas, working out & watching the View. :(
P.S. (Even though he won't save us- Go Obama!!!)
10.21.2008
just a question...
where the hell is everyone?! i know that most of you...okay ALL of you, are busy being in love and doing millions of other things, but I am eagerly awaiting your thoughts on this book. that's all. love you all.
10.01.2008
my thoughts
First of all, this is a beautiful book, thank you for choosing it. Secondly, For some reason the cafe we go to doesn't let us open anything "google,"
so g-mail and blogspot are a rarity for us. Janna has been e-mailing us some of the posts, but sorry in advance for our lateness.
The attaining of heavenly beauties is definitely a theme I saw as well. The ironic thing with this though it that I feel God created us with a purpose to try and attain these things, to strive for that which is Ultimate Good. This longing, however, can never be fully satisfied on earth, so frustrated, we modify our longing to be instead for the attaining of "more." Once this becomes our measure of success, we begin believing that God is using the same system, blessing those She loves with "more" (and just to make it easier we only count the "more" we can see- humility, kindness, patience, etc lose value).
One way I believe we can be set apart is in letting go the notion that we are always sound in judgment and ruling. Being "right" I think is just another heavenly beauty, something to pursue but in what way and at what cost? American Christians seem to cling to their rightness. I cling to my rightness. On page 39 I love the way Claiborne talks about many things "all being a little right." I need more of that gentleness, along with discernment to know when that leniency doesn't work. (Is there a time when something is not even a little right? Can't murder be seen as a poor replica of God's OT justice?)
When prosperity is our only gospel, then it all our systems act like the ones described on page 43, "dehumanized, no longer [having] life or love or beauty in them, and no longer [doing] anything humans were creaked to do, like love and be loved." It becomes about the ends, not the means.
Anyway those are some of my thoughts...
so g-mail and blogspot are a rarity for us. Janna has been e-mailing us some of the posts, but sorry in advance for our lateness.
The attaining of heavenly beauties is definitely a theme I saw as well. The ironic thing with this though it that I feel God created us with a purpose to try and attain these things, to strive for that which is Ultimate Good. This longing, however, can never be fully satisfied on earth, so frustrated, we modify our longing to be instead for the attaining of "more." Once this becomes our measure of success, we begin believing that God is using the same system, blessing those She loves with "more" (and just to make it easier we only count the "more" we can see- humility, kindness, patience, etc lose value).
One way I believe we can be set apart is in letting go the notion that we are always sound in judgment and ruling. Being "right" I think is just another heavenly beauty, something to pursue but in what way and at what cost? American Christians seem to cling to their rightness. I cling to my rightness. On page 39 I love the way Claiborne talks about many things "all being a little right." I need more of that gentleness, along with discernment to know when that leniency doesn't work. (Is there a time when something is not even a little right? Can't murder be seen as a poor replica of God's OT justice?)
When prosperity is our only gospel, then it all our systems act like the ones described on page 43, "dehumanized, no longer [having] life or love or beauty in them, and no longer [doing] anything humans were creaked to do, like love and be loved." It becomes about the ends, not the means.
Anyway those are some of my thoughts...
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